Hot Hot Harley Ultra

[moodygne]

My son bought a 2010 Ultra. I bought a 2010 Goldwing. My question is, Does anyone have a problem with heat on the Harley dressers? His got so hot it quit running while waiting in line at Skyline Drive. When we came home, after a week down Blue Ridge, He took it back to the dealer, they did a stage one download for $150.00 and bought a air filter for $150.00. It seams as though the problem is solved. Why does Harley sale bikes they know aren't right then fix them for $300.00. If you say EPA, then how are the Downloads legal?

[dan1551]

On a hot day it wont idle all day like your Wing does...They know its a problem I actually put true duals, the new air cleaner package, the air deflectors under your legs and a race tuner to cut the heat down He needs to ask the dealer about what George said The system that turns off fuel to the rear cylinder.It is enabled by rolling the throttle forward for a period of time to turn it off and on They started this in December of `07 mine does not have the capability to turn it on and off because it was earlier than December `07

[moodygne]

Seems odd his bike actually quit running ... Harley programed the newer bikes to stop firing the rear cylinder when the engine reached a certain temprature ... supposably to cool down an over heated engine.
The Harly dealer shoud have checked to see that this program was activated, and at NO Charge ...

First rear cylinder shut down, Then whole bike shut down. It worked the way it was supposed to. $24,000 bike that is programed to shut down???? Who would of thunk it. Thank You EPA.

[gdawg]

well......if HD would join the modern age and add water cooling to their cycles......

i believe that it's old technology trying to wiggle their way under newer guidelines...when there are much better ways to deal with it.

[SidecarMike]

They also sell what's called a "parade fan" that is supposed to cool the rear cylinder. Unfortunately, it nearly scalds your calves. I discovered liquid cooling and like it.

[moodygne]

They also sell what's called a "parade fan" that is supposed to cool the rear cylinder. Unfortunately, it nearly scalds your calves. I discovered liquid cooling and like it.


Me too. We also have cat converters. Thanks again EPA. They are in charge of your life now.

[gdawg]

Me too. We also have cat converters. Thanks again EPA. They are in charge of your life now.

fan of pollution?

[moodygne]

fan of pollution?

I am so sick and tired of the EPA ruining the world we live in. The only thing they ever did that was right was got rid of leaded fuel. That is it . Cat converters, burn more fuel. Burn one log you get smoke, burn more you get more smoke. Burn more fuel you get more pollution. That is like low sulfur fuel for trucks to reduce asthma in kids. After a year, asthma is up from the year before. Are they going to go back to they way it was, and return the money that was spent to conform. NO. Who gave them the power? Who is going to be held responsible when what the say doesn't work?

[badger]

My question is, Does anyone have a problem with heat on the Harley dressers?
I have an '09 ultra and have not yet had an overheating problem. I haven't had much chance to ride in truly hot weather however. When temps get to the 90's I can feel the heat. I don't care much parades and I don't really do much idling either if I can avoid it.

Why does Harley sale bikes they know aren't right then fix them for $300.00. If you say EPA, then how are the Downloads legal?
The stage one download sounds weird ... usually a stage one consists of pipes, air cleaner and jetting/download. Stock from the factory, jetting/download should not be required. If new pipes were installed then jetting should have been done at that time? Anyway it is good to know that his bike is running better now.

[Ironheadziggy76]

well......if HD would join the modern age and add water cooling to their cycles......

.........their bike sales would come to a dead stop.........

HD has a water cooled model, the V-Rod and it's sales are only so-so. Harley doesn't join the modern age because their riders don't want them to. How do they know that? Because they ask them at every rally, motorcycle event, etc.

I have to agree with you, I would love to see HD put their V-Rod engine in a touring platform. I would buy that bike. P^

Gary, just curious, how long did it set idling? The heat on mine is not too bad, but it's only an 88 ci. The larger engines run hotter, and they are set very lean to pass the EPA regs.

He will have to remember that it's an air cooled engine and it needs air flowing over the cooling fins to keep it cool. I normally just shut mine off if I have to set for any period of time instead of idling it.

[moodygne]

.........their bike sales would come to a dead stop.........

HD has a water cooled model, the V-Rod and it's sales are only so-so. Harley doesn't join the modern age because their riders don't want them to. How do they know that? Because they ask them at every rally, motorcycle event, etc.

I have to agree with you, I would love to see HD put their V-Rod engine in a touring platform. I would buy that bike. P^

Gary, just curious, how long did it set idling? The heat on mine is not too bad, but it's only an 88 ci. The larger engines run hotter, and they are set very lean to pass the EPA regs.

He will have to remember that it's an air cooled engine and it needs air flowing over the cooling fins to keep it cool. I normally just shut mine off if I have to set for any period of time instead of idling it.

Its so hot that it discolored the outside of his chrome shields, the cat converters are so hot they took the galvanized coat of the bracket. This is not his first Harley, its just the hottest. The EPA is the problem.

[bigdoghd]

I do a bunch of HD's and there extremely lean right from the factor. That's why a lot of people go with a stag one kit right away. I run a aftermarket fuel tuning system on mine, which is fully adaptive, Meaning it adjust for temp, altitude and barometic changes. I'd do a plug reading on them after they did their adjustments. Say after 100 miles or so, send me a pic if you want. The more fuel the cooler the motor. Also a baker oil pan and oil cooler helps. It's a built in EPA issue

[gdawg]

i guess you gotta be in love with the HD mystique to understand why you wouldn't want a water cooled engine these days.

[Rich Johnston]

Lean engines run hotter, but pollute less. Rich engines run cooler, but pollute more. Those air cooled engines are run very lean because H-D is at the end of their technological rope and cannot get pass the current EPA regulations otherwise. I've owned a few H-Ds over the years and I'd put that 01' Electraglide up against any bike in the marketplace for reliability. But it was limited by air cooling and pushrods, bottom line. I don't think I would really consider a bike that is mapped so lean that it has to kill it's rear cylinder at prolonged idle so as not to overheat. When they stroked those things up to 96" it only compounded the problem. No knock on H-D, but it's time to expand that water cooled line and offer bikes that are as appealing/functional technologically as they are aesthetically. They only need to make sure that they don't alienate the "lifestyle" bikers with the expansion of "new" technology. Not so much a concern over loss of sales, but life wouldn't be near so much fun without being able to laugh at the pirates! ARRRRRRRRR!!!!!

[moodygne]

Lean engines run hotter, but pollute less. Rich engines run cooler, but pollute more. Those air cooled engines are run very lean because H-D is at the end of their technological rope and cannot get pass the current EPA regulations otherwise. I've owned a few H-Ds over the years and I'd put that 01' Electraglide up against any bike in the marketplace for reliability. But it was limited by air cooling and pushrods, bottom line. I don't think I would really consider a bike that is mapped so lean that it has to kill it's rear cylinder at prolonged idle so as not to overheat. When they stroked those things up to 96" it only compounded the problem. No knock on H-D, but it's time to expand that water cooled line and offer bikes that are as appealing/functional technologically as they are aesthetically. They only need to make sure that they don't alienate the "lifestyle" bikers with the expansion of "new" technology. Not so much a concern over loss of sales, but life wouldn't be near so much fun without being able to laugh at the pirates! ARRRRRRRRR!!!!!


(Current EPA regulations)Who are they to tell everyone what to do. We did not vote for the people that tell the president what to do. I am tired of it.They have to be stopped

[Mr. Guy]

All bikes have a limitation somewhere. Some Harleys overheat, my bike has a low weight limit. You ride within the limits of what you bought. Tuning will help with most problems. But at a cost.

Complying with the EPA is cheaper than the legal fight to take them to the Supreme Court to prove them not constitutionally authorized. That's why they do whatever they want. And there are other agencies that have no business in the federal government either. Not enough people read, let alone understand the constitution.

Guy

[moodygne]

All bikes have a limitation somewhere. Some Harleys overheat, my bike has a low weight limit. You ride within the limits of what you bought. Tuning will help with most problems. But at a cost.

Complying with the EPA is cheaper than the legal fight to take them to the Supreme Court to prove them not constitutionally authorized. That's why they do whatever they want. And there are other agencies that have no business in the federal government either. Not enough people read, let alone understand the constitution.

Guy

THANK YOU!! I thought I was off base. I do respect you, and glad you agree.

[greybeard]

Mr.Guy I'm sorry and I do somewhat agree with what you said however we the people in our apathy are what allows these things to happen speak up,speak out,and let your voice be heard at the ballot box as well . Just my humble opinion and now I'll get off my soap box

[moodygne]

Mr.Guy I'm sorry and I do somewhat agree with what you said however we the people in our apathy are what allows these things to happen speak up,speak out,and let your voice be heard at the ballot box as well . Just my humble opinion and now I'll get off my soap box


When Do we vote for EPA????? Or any member of EPA?? But yet they tell the president what to do.

[gdawg]

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA or sometimes USEPA) is an agency of the federal government of the United States charged with protecting human health and the environment, by writing and enforcing regulations based on laws passed by Congress. The EPA was proposed by President Richard Nixon and began operation on December 2, 1970, after legislation establishing it was passed by Congress and signed into law by Nixon.[2] The agency is led by its Administrator, who is appointed by the president and approved by Congress. The current administrator is Lisa P. Jackson. The EPA is not a Cabinet department, but the administrator is normally given cabinet rank. The agency has approximately 18,000 full-time employees.[3]

i have heard the argument that the EPA is just a way for people to make money. Al Gore and such have made tons of money off this whole climate change thing. does seem kinda crooked to me. Not sure about the details and what role the EPA has in it tho...

[Ironheadziggy76]

All bikes have a limitation somewhere. Some Harleys overheat, my bike has a low weight limit. You ride within the limits of what you bought. Tuning will help with most problems. But at a cost.

Very well put Guy! P^

While I don't think I've ever owned a bad bike, some just needed more maintenance than others. Take my Suzuki 650 V-Strom for example, it's a great little bike but at almost 30,000 miles the cush drive in the rear wheel is toast. Granted I probably ride it harder than most people do and it's not a big deal to fix, but it should last longer than it has. While it's a liquid cooled bike, it also has more "mechanical" engine noises than any bike I've owned. I guess all the whirring and whining is just part of it's charm. :) I really wanted the 1000 Strom but after riding over half a dozen of them that had issues with the fuel injection, even with a Power Commander installed on one, I gave up and went with the 650. Glad I did! P^

What will my next bike be? Probably be an air cooled Suzuki DR650 like Guy rides or a Honda XR650L.

[SidecarMike]

The EPA was proposed by President Richard Nixon and began operation on December 2, 1970, after legislation establishing it was passed by Congress and signed into law by Nixon. <SNIP>
i have heard the argument that the EPA is just a way for people to make money. Al Gore and such have made tons of money off this whole climate change thing. does seem kinda crooked to me. Not sure about the details and what role the EPA has in it tho...
Actually, it started with Lady Bird Johnson's Beautify America Plan and was finally signed in to law by Nixon. It was meant to combine a dozen different agencies under one ruling body to create uniform regulations and save tax dollars. Unfortunately, over the years, it has become the bloated mess we see today.

[Mr. Guy]

Mr.Guy I'm sorry and I do somewhat agree with what you said however we the people in our apathy are what allows these things to happen speak up,speak out,and let your voice be heard at the ballot box as well . Just my humble opinion and now I'll get off my soap box

As with many things in life, we get the government we deserve. Doesn't mean I have to like it though.

Guy

[Mr. Guy]

Very well put Guy! P^

While I don't think I've ever owned a bad bike, some just needed more maintenance than others. Take my Suzuki 650 V-Strom for example, it's a great little bike but at almost 30,000 miles the cush drive in the rear wheel is toast. Granted I probably ride it harder than most people do and it's not a big deal to fix, but it should last longer than it has. While it's a liquid cooled bike, it also has more "mechanical" engine noises than any bike I've owned. I guess all the whirring and whining is just part of it's charm. :) I really wanted the 1000 Strom but after riding over half a dozen of them that had issues with the fuel injection, even with a Power Commander installed on one, I gave up and went with the 650. Glad I did! P^

What will my next bike be? Probably be an air cooled Suzuki DR650 like Guy rides or a Honda XR650L.

Hi Steve,

I just bought a set of cushes for the cush drive on the DR. 6 of them at about $3 apiece. I'll take that over a set of cam chain tensioners on a HD.

Not to poke your troubles with a sharp stick. :D Just sayin.

There are no "perfect" bikes, just ones I like.

Guy

[moodygne]

Enough about the Harley, I am on the road again, I am headed to, or toward New Mexico.I will forget the EPA, Harley, Heat in the seat, once I start a new adventure.I decided about an hour ago. Two friends from a forum I ride with said they are going, and ask if I wanted to join them. That is about all it takes to get me started. With Gods blessing it will be a good trip. I do want to hit Hungry Mother State park in Va. Then take rt 16 to Beckley WV.

[gdawg]

P^ ...

[superfish]

Did I get that right?? $150 for an air cleaner and the dealer had to put it in??
I'm assuming that the "stage one download" Is a reprogramming. I'm surprised that there was a charge at all on a new bike.

Just asking -- I've never dealt with HD.

[Ironheadziggy76]

bob, that wouldn't surprise me with some dealers! If you have the tools in your hand you can probably change the air cleaner in about 30 seconds. The download is considered a "performance" option. Some dealers won't mount tires unless you buy them from them. Some will only mount the HD branded Dunlops, and now Michelin's that are HD approved. Luckily I have access to a couple of "good" dealerships that don't try to fleece you at every visit.

To give you an example, when I got quotes for the cam chain tensioner shoes Guy was referring to I checked with all the dealers in my area. My local dealer was $300.00 higher, but for that price I ended up with new cams, chains, oil pump, lifters, cam support plate on top of the shoes. HD has a kit that has all these parts at a set price and my local dealer was the only one who offered it.

Hopefully now my engine will be good to go to 100,000 miles. P^

[Alan]

I reference to air cooled engines and the EPA, both VW and Porsche gave up on air cooled engines when the onerous EPA regulations kicked in. As mentioned, the air cooled engines need to be run very lean and this causes all sorts of bad side effects and driveability issues. So both companies just bit the bullet and designed modern water cooled engines.

[bigTom]

You know, everybody in the world can tune a motor to EPA standards but HD. They make less dyno horsepower today than they did 10 years ago! 24K and you start with about 55 hp so they can clear emissions.

Look at everybody else. My Connie makes 125 hp ON way less CC. I have a B King for sale that will get you 150 hp for less than $8000. And guess what? They are cooled so they will sit and idle or run hard in the desert all day with out any cylinder drop.

If you have to have pushrods and a single pin crank, you have only one manufacturer to choose from. It's the technology that was all the vogue in 1939.

I have my arguments with the EPA, don't get me wrong. But everybody plays by the same rules and only one manufacturer gets $1000 to make their stuff work post sale.

I'm just saying. If you gotta have the logo, you gotta pay the price. If that means leaving it sit when it is too warm, that's part of the price you pay.

[Ironheadziggy76]

You know, everybody in the world can tune a motor to EPA standards but HD. They make less dyno horsepower today than they did 10 years ago! 24K and you start with about 55 hp so they can clear emissions.

Sad but very true Tom! I went from about 55 to 72 rear wheel horsepower by simply changing the mufflers and air cleaner myself and letting a dealer do a Stage 1 download on mine. Torque numbers really jumped as well. Would it pass an emissions test? I doubt it, but luckily we don't have to have them checked here in KY yet.