Harley Twin Cam riders check this thread!

[Ironheadziggy76]

I've noticed several members here are riding Harley Twin Cams so I thought I would post about the cam chain tensioner shoes. There have been cases of premature wear, and the occasional spring breakage on models through 2003. Harley supposedly changed the material the shoes were made of in 04 or 05 so they say. In 07 they changed the tensioners from spring loaded to hydraulic, so you should have no issues in the 96" engine.

Here are a few pics of mine after I pulled it apart tonight.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w294/Ironheadziggy76/DSCN1550.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w294/Ironheadziggy76/?action=view&current=DSCN1550.jpg)

The outer shoe looks pretty good, still serviceable after almost 43,000 miles.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w294/Ironheadziggy76/DSCN1549.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w294/Ironheadziggy76/?action=view&current=DSCN1549.jpg)

The inner shoe can be checked using a strong flashlight and a small mirror, I used a dental mirror. Now for the bad news. :( The inner shoe was worn down bad enough that the outer edge of the shoe was worn off and laying in the bottom of the cam chest. I fished it out with a pick and laid it on the floorboard for this picture.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w294/Ironheadziggy76/DSCN1548.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w294/Ironheadziggy76/?action=view&current=DSCN1548.jpg)

When these fail they can break into small pieces and get drawn into the oil pump and you know what's next. You really get no warning as my bike was running perfect, and not making any funny noises, etc.

I haven't decided yet if I'm going to replace these with the updated stock shoes, or go with a set of gear drive cams like the ones G wizz is using in his bikes. Another option is upgrading to a new cam plate from the 07-up 96" engine. You also need to use the 07-up oil pump as it has higher pressure and volume to support the hydraulic tensioner system.

The shoes have been known to fail with as little as 20,000 miles, so you might want to have a look.

[TrainBagger]

Ziggy, thanks for the heads up on this. I have over 75,000 miles on my Nightrain, and have not given any serious thought to this until now. I guess it's just one more thing I should have done over the winter, and didn't! I guess I better get busy, 'cause spring has sprung and it's time to travel!

PS What kind of gear drive cams does G wizz run?

[Ironheadziggy76]

Jim I think he told me he went with the S&S setup in his and Deb's bikes.

I've been putting this off all winter, dreading what I would find. :(

[G wizz]

See Ziggy ... :well ... I warned ya!

Yes guys,
I did replace those crappy stock cam chain tentioners, in both my Road King, and in Deb's Softail Heritage, and I used the S&S gear drive set up.
Other than the motors now sounding like the old Shovelheads, (they had gear driven cams), we've been happy with this set up.
Like Ziggy stated, you can also upgrade to the later Harley cam chain version.
Whilst I was in there, I also up graded the cams. I installed Andrews G-21 cams in both bikes, as they are good for low end torque, and mid range power.
They've worked well for us, carrying (pulling) all the camping gear that we do ...

Either way, DO have the tentioners checked if you have 20,000 miles, or more on your twin cam engine.
DO IT NOW!!!
Don't go through what we had to with Deb's bike. $$$
Her engine stuck a valve at about 30,000 miles, and I belive it was caused from the defective tentioners.

G wizz

[canyonman]

Great, cam chain tensioner issues on my FJR and now my Deuce too?!. I need to join a Harley forum.
Thanks for the heads up guys.

[Chief]

I had mine changed on my 04 @ 42,000 miles. They were worn a little but not broke so I'm not gonna worry about them again until about 80,000 unless I can get the bucks to change my cams again. I'd like to have the Andrews 21 to replace the HD203 I have now.

[jkane13]

At about 56,000 miles I had an engine rebuild because they wore out and I didn't catch them. Pieces got inside and messed things up. 2000 Ultra. I was the second owner of it, but most of the miles are mine.

[G wizz]

I had mine changed on my 04 @ 42,000 miles. They were worn a little but not broke so I'm not gonna worry about them again until about 80,000 unless I can get the bucks to change my cams again. I'd like to have the Andrews 21 to replace the HD203 I have now.

Thought you should know ...
I've been told that the replacement shoes wern't holding up as well as expected. They say the don't last as long as the original ones.
Somthing to think about ...

[Chief]

Thought you should know ...
I've been told that the replacement shoes wern't holding up as well as expected. They say the don't last as long as the original shoes.
Somthing to think about ...

I'm gonna tell my wife it's your fault if I have to buy a 2011 in Sep. because I'm worried about my shoes!:D

[Whosoever]

Great, cam chain tensioner issues on my FJR and now my Deuce.

Can you elaborate on this?

[canyonman]

Can you elaborate on this?

Earlier model FJRs (pre 2009) have an automatic cam chain tensioner that may not keep sufficient tension and could allow your cam chain to slack and jump a tooth causing your motor to grenade. They redesigned them now. Not a lot of them have done it (failed that is) but it must have been enough of a problem for Yamaha to redesign them.

And now I just read this about the twin cams which I have a 2001 so looks like I better get in there and take a peek at mine.

[Ironheadziggy76]

UPDATE:

As much as I hated to admit defeat, I took the bike to the dealer to have the shoes replaced as I don't have access to a press to get the cams out of the cam plate. The mechanic called me and gave me more bad news. Some of the hardened surface was starting to wear off one of the lobes on one of the cams. He told me he could put it back together and I could probably get another 10,000-15,000 miles out of it. He said if it was his he would drop new cams in. One of the service managers who is a good friend worked and figured the best bang for the buck on the repair. I went with Harley's Cam repair kit, which tells me they've had to do a bunch of these if they have a "Kit" for it. The kit comes with new cams, chains, and adjusters installed in a new cam plate with bearings, new lifters, and a new oil pump. I changed out the inner cam bearings and went with adjustable push rods as well. What started out as a $750.00 job turned into a $1,185.00 job but everything in the cam chest is brand new. This should hold me until the top end needs to be freshened up down the road.

I can't stress enough that y'all check these! As I said before the bike was running perfectly. The inner shoe was already completely worn through to the steel pivot pin that hold the shoe in place! It was worse than I thought! :eek:

[TrainBagger]

Steve, after reading your post on this, I pulled my '00 Nightrain down to have a look. I had 73,000 miles on the original tensioners, and there was significant wear on both of them. After stripping the bike and unloading the lifters, I took the bike to a local shop to have inner and outer cam bearings replaced and new tensioners installed. All the rest of the cam/lifter/rocker components were well within wear limits, so I put her back together without having to fork out a bunch more than expected.
Thanks for the heads up on this. Now I can get on the road and enjoy riding with a little less to worry about. See ya at the Chill Out!

[Ironheadziggy76]

Jim, glad to hear everything was still within spec! I have to admit I was pretty bummed out over the wear in mine, considering I run synthetic oil and change it every 3,000 miles. On the other hand, the old girl hasn't had an easy life, maybe I should go a little easier on her in the next 50,000 miles. :p

[G wizz]

Jim, glad to hear everything was still within spec! I have to admit I was pretty bummed out over the wear in mine, considering I run synthetic oil and change it every 3,000 miles. On the other hand, the old girl hasn't had an easy life, maybe I should go a little easier on her in the next 50,000 miles. :p

Nope ... Don't think it had anything to do with the type of oil you did or didn't use, or how it was ridden ...
Ziggy, lets face it, it was just the luck of the draw ...

Take Deb's bike for example, she had 30,000 miles on it, and drops a valve. Now, do you think she beats on her bike? ... NOT!

G wizz

[Ironheadziggy76]

LaJuana was making fun of me growling about it, saying, "You knew it was junk when you bought it new, but you had to be cool!" :mad: The things I have to live with! :p

[Cooter]

Now you guys have me worried. I've got an '02 with 38K on it. Now it looks like I'm going to tear into it just so I have a peaceful mind.:(

[Mr. Guy]

Hi Cooter,

Peace of mind will probably be worth the time it'll take to tear into it to check it. May get into it and see it's in great shape, but the not knowing would drive me crazy.

Guy

[Ironheadziggy76]

Welcome to the site Cooter! You might want to look them over. You may be one of the lucky ones and they are still serviceable. But if your luck is like mine....................

[Liv2Ride]

Great. Not good news to me at all since I don't do any of the mechanical work on my '04 Heritage. Maybe this is a sign that a brand new Street Glide should be placed on my list of things to do..... P^ Or maybe it's time for a GS 650 :D

[Chief]

Well, since Whizz got me worried about my old tensioners:confused: I went down Friday and traded my Goldwing on a new 2011 Road Glide Ultra. They announced the new models on Tuesday and by Wed I had found what I was looking for.P^
I told my wife it was all ya'lls fault that I had to buy a new one.

Now I gotta set it up to pull the Aspen.

[thatdude]

my '03 blew the shoe at 50,000. while i was on the road. a local h-d shop did a quick fix and got me back rollin'. got over 100,000 now and i'm thinking gears are the way to go

[Ironheadziggy76]

Well, since Whizz got me worried about my old tensioners:confused: I went down Friday and traded my Goldwing on a new 2011 Road Glide Ultra. They announced the new models on Tuesday and by Wed I had found what I was looking for.P^
I told my wife it was all ya'lls fault that I had to buy a new one.

Now I gotta set it up to pull the Aspen.

Chief, tell the wife we are all very sorry! :D Congrats on the new ride, if I'm ever able to afford a new Harley it will be a Road Glide! I rode a buddy of mine's and I'm sold on the frame mount fairing. P^

my '03 blew the shoe at 50,000. while i was on the road. a local h-d shop did a quick fix and got me back rollin'. got over 100,000 now and i'm thinking gears are the way to go

thatdude, I almost went with a gear drive set up, but decided to wait until I need to freshen up the top end and then do it all at once. Like you, I hope I'm done till 100,000 miles or so.

[BladeRun]

Well, since Whizz got me worried about my old tensioners:confused: I went down Friday and traded my Goldwing on a new 2011 Road Glide Ultra.

Congrats on the new bike! What color did you get?

[Peacekeeper]

This is a problem with no rhyme or reason, some shoes go 100k and some blow at 20k. I just did the SE camplate Hyd tensioner upgrade with a set of andrews 26 cams. The upgrade supplies more volume and a slight increase in pressure. I replaced the SE bypass pring with the LMR-4 spring now I have excellent pressure and volume. The new tensioners are the cats meow and the tension is released upon shut down. This was one of the theorys of why they were busting, constant tension on hot chains when not running in any oil for cooling. Make sure you upgrade from the INA bearings to the Torrington and the mild andrews cams really woke things up and cooled things down. Gears are a good option if your crank run out is in spec, if not they will be noisy and the pump will eat itself. I think max run out on the gear set is .002. Most are much more than that. Got about 5000 miles on the upgrade and much much better than new.